• Van: Herentals (België)
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Re: too early

Fatal_Error_shutdown schreef:
Wolfie_123 schreef:
Fatal_Error_shutdown schreef:

dutch is both a nationality and a language, when you say in dutch 'ik spreek nederlands' doesn't mean 'ik ben nederlands' tongue (sorry for the people who don't speak dutch around here, but is the only way to say it big_smile) it is the same in english smile we speak dutch, but we aren't dutch, understand? tongue

So it's wrong to call a Dutch speaking person Dutchie?
(sorry but I'm blond)

i don't really care how we are called, as long as it isn't insulting... and i have never heard somebody say 'dutchie' tongue

Didn't I just say I'm blond

Me and myself hate vmode
  • Van: limburg, belgium
  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-13
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Re: too early

Wolfie_123 schreef:
Fatal_Error_shutdown schreef:
Wolfie_123 schreef:

So it's wrong to call a Dutch speaking person Dutchie?
(sorry but I'm blond)

i don't really care how we are called, as long as it isn't insulting... and i have never heard somebody say 'dutchie' tongue

Didn't I just say I'm blond

yeah, so? tongue i used to be blond too.

Stable didn't last, goodbye Dolumar.
mods can delete this account if they want to, maybe they'll do something usefull for once.

53 Reactie door Demonic

  • Demonic
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Re: too early

C'mon FES!
Losing a few runes ain't a big deal...
Just get some more, eat and be eaten, it's a war game!!
big_smile

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Van: limburg, belgium
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Re: too early

yeah, 42 runes lost in one week, and my resource production is now so low that it takes two days before i can search for new ones. in that time, i get attacked again. see my problem?

Stable didn't last, goodbye Dolumar.
mods can delete this account if they want to, maybe they'll do something usefull for once.

55 Reactie door Demonic

  • Demonic
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Re: too early

No?
Use the force!
Attack and gain runes and resources!

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Van: limburg, belgium
  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-13
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Re: too early

that is the problem: if i attack i lose because i don't have enough resources to make armour, i even lose when i send 3x as much troops as the defender owns...
doesn't matter anymore, i restarted

Stable didn't last, goodbye Dolumar.
mods can delete this account if they want to, maybe they'll do something usefull for once.

57 Reactie door Demonic

  • Demonic
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Re: too early

You don't need any armour my friend.
I don't use it either big_smile

Ouch... now you've made things worse!
You've got so many runes almost everyone can attack you... and you have no army.

GOOD LUCK!

Laatst bewerkt door Demonic (2010-01-24 15:16:45)

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Van: limburg, belgium
  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-13
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Re: too early

we'll see... from now on, no alliances, no naps, no mercy, because they all end up in betrayal. i'll rule my clan with an iron hand, and once i am back at a normal level even you wouldn't want to attack me anymore

Stable didn't last, goodbye Dolumar.
mods can delete this account if they want to, maybe they'll do something usefull for once.

59 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
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Re: too early

Daedeloth schreef:

As requested, the formula for morale checking:

/*
    Returns TRUE if this troop keeps fighting
    @param $unit: A unit (regiment) object.
    @param $morale: Morale of the unit (default 100)
    @param $orgAmount: Original amount of units before the fight started
    @param $curAmount: Current amount of living units
    @param $killedLastRound: Amount of units killed in current (last) round.
    TODO: Make a better morale check.
*/
private function checkMorale ($unit, $morale, $orgAmount, $curAmount, $killedLastRound)
{
    $percentage = $curAmount / $orgAmount;
    
    $chk = true;
    
    if ($percentage < 0.9 && $killedLastRound > 0)
    {
        $chanse = 100;
            
        foreach ($unit->getEffects () as $v)
        {
            $chanse = $v->procMoraleCheck ($chanse, $this);
        }
    
        $chk = mt_rand (0, 200) < $chanse;
    }    
    
    return $chk;
}

This function is called after every "round", that means, after all attackers and defenders have attacked.

And, yes, I don't like random factors in the game, but this is something Vilmore came up with smile

I'm guessing something goes wrong in one of the effects (spells). I'm going to add a large amount of debug data to sort this out and also to give extra details about the troops during battles.

so, to sum up...

after regiment loses 10% of its soldiers it has 50% chance each turn to run away.

basically in every battle after 1-2 rounds most of the regiments on both sides have 50% to run away?

so every battle is determined by this stroke of luck, whether my or enemy's regiments run away?

excuse me, did someone say anything about not liking luck factors in game?

Laatst bewerkt door cleesan (2010-02-02 15:45:53)

  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
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Re: too early

you're forgetting that the regiments has to lose 10% first.

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...

61 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
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Re: too early

im not forgetting it.

i just assume that defender has some army.
and i think it would be safe to assume both fighters have similar armies and balance system around such fights.

in such scenarion its highly probable that after first round most of the regiments will fall below 90%. after that its lottery - 50% to win, 50% to lose. 50% chance for each regiment to run. enemy was lucky and his regiments didnt run, while yours did? you lose even tho you were winning.

how do you imagine battles between clans? each fight having 50% chance of winning / losing, no matter the amount of troops?

sure, you can say that with greater number of soldiers your regiments may drop below 90% later.  but for that difference must be really big. just look at examples given by players. 30 soldiers attack, 10 defend. 5 attackers die, 7 defenders die. attackers run and lose. or one of the attacker's regiment runs at 85% leaving second regiment to its death. not only defeat but also excessive loses

62 Reactie door DoomPope

  • Van: Lawrence, KS
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Re: too early

cleesan schreef:

im not forgetting it.

i just assume that defender has some army.
and i think it would be safe to assume both fighters have similar armies and balance system around such fights.

in such scenarion its highly probable that after first round most of the regiments will fall below 90%. after that its lottery - 50% to win, 50% to lose. 50% chance for each regiment to run. enemy was lucky and his regiments didnt run, while yours did? you lose even tho you were winning.

A key thing that is missing is that each regiment has a 'front line' that fights.  While true that any given regiment can lose any amount of troops in a round, a regiment has a fixed amount of damage it can inflict.  I don't have any solid numbers in front of me, but on stable each unit has a 'front' of 10, so only 10 units fight in a round.  This usually comes out to something around 7-10 units killed per attack.  Now if we have regiments upwards of 500 units, 50 need to die before triggering the flee routine.

how do you imagine battles between clans? each fight having 50% chance of winning / losing, no matter the amount of troops?

sure, you can say that with greater number of soldiers your regiments may drop below 90% later.  but for that difference must be really big. just look at examples given by players. 30 soldiers attack, 10 defend. 5 attackers die, 7 defenders die. attackers run and lose. or one of the attacker's regiment runs at 85% leaving second regiment to its death. not only defeat but also excessive loses

No there are plenty of strategies that can be employed to make the other team's numbers drop faster, or make your own regiments last longer.  While true, similar numbers and a similar strategy will usually end up a defensive win (they have default advantage).

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Van: KELEVRA on STABLE
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-27
  • Berichten: 165

Re: too early

Theres NO place for luck in a strategie game. End of story. If you really want to keep a bit of luck in the battles, add another factor, morale of troops  influencing luck. If a much bigger army attacks a smaller one, its logical that the first one to have high morale and not run away ever, while the second, smaller army have low morale and have a much higher chance of running away. And when the troops are even or close to it then the luck part should not be bigger then 10, maybe 20%. Definitly not 50%.

64 Reactie door DoomPope

  • Van: Lawrence, KS
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Re: too early

Lakers4eva schreef:

Theres NO place for luck in a strategie game. End of story. If you really want to keep a bit of luck in the battles, add another factor, morale of troops  influencing luck. If a much bigger army attacks a smaller one, its logical that the first one to have high morale and not run away ever, while the second, smaller army have low morale and have a much higher chance of running away. And when the troops are even or close to it then the luck part should not be bigger then 10, maybe 20%. Definitly not 50%.

Having all static numbers is boring.  With the old system a player could tell if they won or lost seconds into the battle.  I would personally like to see the % based off of some sort of decaying variable that is based on % left.... and possibly with respect to some of the other things around the regiment.

ie
A regiment that is being flanked on both sides as well as fighting on the front would be more likely to run that 3 units fighting 3 units... all else the same.
And if the % to flee was the % lost multiplied by some constant... ie
rand(0-100) >= (lost% * 2) - 10. 
This way a regiment always has some chance of staying, and it's chance to flee increases with every round.  If we were to tie them together it could be something like
rand(0-100) >= ((lost% * 2) - 10) + ((fight * 5) - 5)
where fight is the number of regiments they are currently fighting.  If a regiment is fighting 3 regiments it would have a 10% greater risk to flee, and fighting one regiment would be the same.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.

65 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
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Re: too early

@DoomPope
stable server doesnt have this issue, my regiments never ran unless severly damaged.

on speed you have to admit that even with all those "strategies" luck factor plays HUGE part. i have to agree with Lakers. either implement some morale system or make "flee" function more continous.

even  chance_to_run = 175 -  regiment_health * 2.5

would be better. every regiment runs when 30% is reached and theres no chance to run as long as regiment is above 70%

Laatst bewerkt door cleesan (2010-02-03 17:40:58)

66 Reactie door DoomPope

  • Van: Lawrence, KS
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Re: too early

cleesan schreef:

@DoomPope
stable server doesnt have this issue, my regiments never ran unless severly damaged.

on speed you have to admit that even with all those "strategies" luck factor plays HUGE part. i have to agree with Lakers. either implement some morale system or make "flee" function more continous.

even  chance_to_run = 130 - regiment_health

would be better. every regiment runs when 30% is reached and theres no chance to run as long as regiment is above 70%

Stable has a static system where a unit will flee once it's size is less than 50%.  Some amount of randomness is a good thing.  Esp. now that magic mirror is in, someone with a little time and a little math can just run numbers if it is a pure static. 

As far as speed/beta system goes I will honestly say I have not enough experience with them to give feedback of their actual results.  But looking at the function I can go as far as sympathize if not agree with you big_smile

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Van: Herentals (België)
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-17
  • Berichten: 116

Re: too early

I don't have any problems with fights on speed.
I like the luck factor

Me and myself hate vmode
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
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Re: too early

luck is much less effective as people imagine. you are basing your examples on 100 troop armies, effectively, the first while of the server. a 150 army MAY lose in front of a 100 troop army, with such luck involved.
a 3000 troop army, will NEVER lose in front of a 1500 unless the player with big army did something really stupid like put all his army in 1 regiment or 2 tongue
luck has its effects, it presents a nice factor, but doesn't present any bad uncertainty. use your wits, your strategies, and you can win. RELY on this luck, and make it your ally, there are regiment formations which can create miracles.
pass by the TSR offensive office someday wink eltrut still won't forget his aweful battle defending against staracker, 500 vmode support gu'al riders sure didn't help him wink

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...
  • Van: Herentals (België)
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Re: too early

whamra1987 schreef:

luck is much less effective as people imagine. you are basing your examples on 100 troop armies, effectively, the first while of the server. a 150 army MAY lose in front of a 100 troop army, with such luck involved.
a 3000 troop army, will NEVER lose in front of a 1500 unless the player with big army did something really stupid like put all his army in 1 regiment or 2 tongue
luck has its effects, it presents a nice factor, but doesn't present any bad uncertainty. use your wits, your strategies, and you can win. RELY on this luck, and make it your ally, there are regiment formations which can create miracles.
pass by the TSR offensive office someday wink eltrut still won't forget his aweful battle defending against staracker, 500 vmode support gu'al riders sure didn't help him wink

I would if they weren't in vmode

Me and myself hate vmode
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
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Re: too early

to add more, the winner can always be guaranteed to be the army that can kill 10% of the enemy army. the army that loses 10% is the one which luck will intervene in order to save from fleeing, but.... with suck luck, it won't last more than 5 turns unless in extreme cases.
the only times this luck will determine battle is when both armies reach this 10% loss in a margin of 2~3 rounds between them.

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...

71 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
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Re: too early

thats the most idiotic battle i have seen so far:

Outcome:    Repelled
Attacking Units
Unit    Amount    died
Gu'al Cavalry    25    3
Defending Units
Unit    Amount    died
Citadel Guards    10    10

(...)

candies (22 Gu'al Cavalry) kill 1 units from 1 Citadel Guards in a melee.
1 Citadel Guards kill 0 units from candies (22 Gu'al Cavalry) in a melee.
candies (22 Gu'al Cavalry) run away crying. I told you all of this would end in tears.
The bodies of 1 Citadel Guards lie shattered, in a pool of blood, on the battlefield.
A river of blood flows from the battlefield. While the sun sets, your captain looks over the battlefield, full of wounded and dead soldiers. The fight is over... but is the battle?
A level 4 Wizard died.

still thinking battle system is not bugged / weird?

you win, yet you lose.

Laatst bewerkt door cleesan (2010-02-09 07:36:12)

  • Van: Herentals (België)
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-17
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Re: too early

cleesan schreef:

thats the most idiotic battle i have seen so far:

Outcome:    Repelled
Attacking Units
Unit    Amount    died
Gu'al Cavalry    25    3
Defending Units
Unit    Amount    died
Citadel Guards    10    10

(...)

candies (22 Gu'al Cavalry) kill 1 units from 1 Citadel Guards in a melee.
1 Citadel Guards kill 0 units from candies (22 Gu'al Cavalry) in a melee.
candies (22 Gu'al Cavalry) run away crying. I told you all of this would end in tears.
The bodies of 1 Citadel Guards lie shattered, in a pool of blood, on the battlefield.
A river of blood flows from the battlefield. While the sun sets, your captain looks over the battlefield, full of wounded and dead soldiers. The fight is over... but is the battle?
A level 4 Wizard died.

still thinking battle system is not bugged / weird?

you win, yet you lose.

You didn't win you ran away crying

Me and myself hate vmode
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
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Re: too early

he actually won, had you analyzed the report carefully.
those sentinels didn't run away until they all died. that's a bug.

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...

74 Reactie door Demonic

  • Demonic
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Re: too early

The undead citadel gaurd ran away crying.
Ofcourse, an undead crying citadel is scary so his units ran away crying as well.
It all makes sense to me wink

Your village is 38100% bigger than the defending village. You will probably lose 90 honour by attacking this village. If someone of your clan attacked this village earlier, every clan member will lose honour.
  • Van: Herentals (België)
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-17
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Re: too early

whamra1987 schreef:

he actually won, had you analyzed the report carefully.
those sentinels didn't run away until they all died. that's a bug.

Those sentinels didn't run away at all, they just died
The ga'uls ran away after loosing 10%.
Still don't see the bug.

Laatst bewerkt door Wolfie_123 (2010-02-09 12:25:30)

Me and myself hate vmode