76 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
  • Berichten: 73

Re: too early

the bug isnt technical. the bug is in design.

deffender was outnumbered. defender lost all soldiers. but its attcker who is running. in NO other game i have seen situation like this. when one side is much more powerful than the other its obvious they will win. not here tho.

even when defender lost all soldiers attacker lost. even if i brough 2x more soldiers my chance of losing would be quite high. i dont know all formulas so i cant make proper calculations. this one battle and many others may have many different endings depending on this stupid dice roll. i just cant stress how idiotic it is for winning side to run away or how annoying is combat style where almost everything depends on luck. and dont tell me its not. you can use some tricks to make your chances higher but its still luck. you can lose with 3-4 times larger army suffering 10% loses while enemy suffers 90%. or 100% in my case

and as to technical bug - there is one.
in first shown line of the log cavalry kills last one of the sentinels. few seconds later those sentinels fight back. another few seconds later and cavalry runs away.

77 Reactie door DoomPope

  • Van: Lawrence, KS
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-17
  • Berichten: 580

Re: too early

cleesan schreef:

and as to technical bug - there is one.
in first shown line of the log cavalry kills last one of the sentinels. few seconds later those sentinels fight back. another few seconds later and cavalry runs away.

it's not a bug but it can look that way. Each side fights at the same time. So the sentinals were killing the calv while they were decimated.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
  • Berichten: 473

Re: too early

Wolfie_123 schreef:
whamra1987 schreef:

he actually won, had you analyzed the report carefully.
those sentinels didn't run away until they all died. that's a bug.

Those sentinels didn't run away at all, they just died
The ga'uls ran away after loosing 10%.
Still don't see the bug.

oh dear. here it is, in a tiny little spoon brought to you so you can understand.
*every* regiment is supposed to consider running away after losing 10%. and if it gets total death, ie. goes out of battle calculations after dying completely, that's a bug.

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...

79 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
  • Berichten: 73

Re: too early

is there any reasoning behind this strange rule? flat 50% chance to run after losing 10% hp? any justification for that? because it just argues with everything im used to and what would seem obvious and logical.

  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
  • Berichten: 473

Re: too early

in the past, the numbers were harsher. 75%, then dropped to 50%. it was 50 for the most time.
i personally, still prefer the 50% rule. but due to the nagging of the weaker players, it was decided to drop it to 10. this way, there's more remaining troops in the village after an attack on it, and can defend itself from more incoming attacks. whereas on 50, 2~3 attacks considerable size are enough to leave the village naked.
but sigh, just another change to satisfy the crying folks

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...

81 Reactie door Hellikin

  • Van: Rode off into the sunset
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-25
  • Berichten: 524

Re: too early

whamra1987 schreef:

just another change to satisfy the crying folks

This change may need to be revisited.

7 x 13 = 28

Economics today is a race between economists striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof economic or financial models or programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning...

82 Reactie door DoomPope

  • Van: Lawrence, KS
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-17
  • Berichten: 580

Re: too early

Hellikin schreef:
whamra1987 schreef:

just another change to satisfy the crying folks

This change may need to be revisited.

Esp now that the 25% cap is in place.

And God Said:
Δ*D = ρf                   Δ*B = 0
ΔxE = -δB/δt            ΔxH = Jf + δD/δt
and THEN there was light.

83 Reactie door Hellikin

  • Van: Rode off into the sunset
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-25
  • Berichten: 524

Re: too early

Yes - oddly enough given the posts in general chat... we may be at a point of "too much protection" ... especially for same-sized villages

7 x 13 = 28

Economics today is a race between economists striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof economic or financial models or programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning...
  • Van: Herentals (België)
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-17
  • Berichten: 116

Re: too early

whamra1987 schreef:
Wolfie_123 schreef:
whamra1987 schreef:

he actually won, had you analyzed the report carefully.
those sentinels didn't run away until they all died. that's a bug.

Those sentinels didn't run away at all, they just died
The ga'uls ran away after loosing 10%.
Still don't see the bug.

oh dear. here it is, in a tiny little spoon brought to you so you can understand.
*every* regiment is supposed to consider running away after losing 10%. and if it gets total death, ie. goes out of battle calculations after dying completely, that's a bug.

every regiment has a 50% chance to run away after losing 10%

Me and myself hate vmode
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
  • Berichten: 473

Re: too early

indeed. it has a 50% of running away, after EVERY turn. and if a regiment never flees away after losing its 10%, that's a bug. go read the code, it might enlighten you a bit.

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...
  • Van: Herentals (België)
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-17
  • Berichten: 116

Re: too early

whamra1987 schreef:

indeed. it has a 50% of running away, after EVERY turn. and if a regiment never flees away after losing its 10%, that's a bug. go read the code, it might enlighten you a bit.

ok thanks for explaining

Me and myself hate vmode

87 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
  • Berichten: 73

Re: too early

another funny attack:

Suddenly, your captain notices that the enemies archers are getting into place. Quickly, he orders your archers to take aim and fire!
A well placed salvo of 10 Citadel Guards kills 0 units from warriors2 (19 Dark Warriors).
A well placed salvo of 10 Citadel Guards kills 1 units from riders1 (9 Wolf Riders).
10 Citadel Guards don't wait and kill 0 units of warriors1 (19 Dark Warriors).
Your captain orders your troops to rush towards the enemy troops.
riders1 (9 Wolf Riders) run away crying. I told you all of this would end in tears.
warriors2 (19 Dark Warriors) ran towards location 2.
warriors1 (19 Dark Warriors) kill 2 units from 10 Citadel Guards in a melee.
warriors2 (19 Dark Warriors) kill 2 units from 10 Citadel Guards in a melee.
10 Citadel Guards kill 2 units from warriors2 (18 Dark Warriors) in a melee.
warriors2 (18 Dark Warriors) run away crying. I told you all of this would end in tears.
10 Citadel Guards run away crying. I told you all of this would end in tears.
A river of blood flows from the battlefield. While the sun sets, your captain looks over the battlefield, full of wounded and dead soldiers. The fight is over... but is the battle?


summary:

36% victory
Attacking Units
Unit    Amount    died
Dark Warriors    38    2
Wolf Riders    9    1
Defending Units
Unit    Amount    died
Citadel Guards    10    4

  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
  • Berichten: 473

Re: too early

nothing wrong here :S
riders lost 1 of 9. (1*100/9=11.1% > 10%) so they chose to run away
the citadel guards also ran on the first turn after losing their 10%
warriors2 lost 3 (3*100/19=15.7% > 10%) and also ran away.
warriors1 were the only ones left in the field, and ensured a win for the attacker. warriors1 are 19 troops. the attacking army in crop worth is 4*9+38*2=112 food worth. what remains is 19 warriors, 38 food worth. 38*100/112=34% which is almost the 36% reported. not sure what causes this 2 persent difference, but the result is accurate.

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...

89 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
  • Berichten: 73

Re: too early

battle is idiotic and thats whats wrong here. show it to any reasonable person and they will laugh: "man, what the hell is this?"

  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
  • Berichten: 473

Re: too early

uhm....  47 strong troops attack 10 guards. guards try to defend, they run away after sustaining losses. i see nothing idiotic here. you might as well explain your point instead of throwing random negative comments.

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...

91 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
  • Berichten: 73

Re: too early

10% rule is wrong here. in this example attacker barely won, even with much bigger army. but with this stupid rule he could as well lose if guards didnt run (50% chance) and instead attacked remaining regiment causing it to run in next turn (50% chance) resulting in repelled attack. it could have been totally opposite - attacker's regiments dont run in the first turn (50% chance) and instead guards run after first round (50% chance) resulting in 100% victory.

looking at summary its obvious that attacker should win with total victory, thats what everyone would be expecting in every game (assuming units' stats are comparable and in this case they are). but instead we get this - a joke, stupid lottery. 47 units against 10. and out of those 47 28 run away after losing 3 people. because some RNG produced number greater than 50 twice.

i understand that every game needs some randomness. but this? its so obvious, battles shouldnt be decided by some rolls like this. so why are you asking me what do i mean?

92 Reactie door lazarus

  • Van: Tertius
  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-19
  • Berichten: 33

Re: too early

AAAHHHH!!! you guys all need to take a class in statistics... sorry but you do...

One, Two... many smile

93 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
  • Berichten: 73

Re: too early

are you trying to refer to posts from 3 pages ago or what?

  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
  • Berichten: 473

Re: too early

no, to your posts. *much* larger army? anything less than 100 troops is little. any little army can be quite influenced by *luck*. anything over 100 gets less and less *luck* effects, it's called statistics.
and 50%? sentinels follow the same 10% rule.

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...

95 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
  • Berichten: 73

Re: too early

47 against 10 is much bigger (470% to be exact) to me. "bigger" implies comparison. i didnt say my army was big, just bigger.

and 50%? its 50% to run when health gets below 90%.

its true that huge armies suffer from this "luck" mechanic (id rather call it "broken" tho) less, altho still a lot. but what kind of argument is it?

  • Geregistreerd: 2009-11-16
  • Berichten: 473

Re: too early

2 people on 1 are 200% bigger, but 1 can quite easily beat 2 and even 3 people, small nhumbers are always affected by luck factors.
on the other hand, 200 against 100 certainly doesn't follow this rule, the chances of luck are quite dim, to have *every* soldier beat 2. it's called statistics.
now we can most certainly lock the formulas, hide the battle events, and just show results, like most other games do, but we don't, we show them.

just that guy... remember him? didn't expect you to...

97 Reactie door Voldtekt

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-03-02
  • Berichten: 238

Re: too early

I'm not sure exactly what OP said, but here's a battle I was in on the speed server.
Attacker:      Voldtekt's Village
Defender:     Anundil's Dorp
Date:     03.03.2010 03:07
Outcome:     6% victory
Attacking Units
Unit     Amount     died
Witches     3     1
Wolf Riders     15     2
Dark Warriors     10     3
Defending Units
Unit     Amount     died
Citadel Guards     10     2
Knights     3     3

Look it over. The defender was clearly outnumbered. Idk what it is, but a 6% victory? I just can't accept that as how it's supposed to be.

The easy part was getting the brain out! The hard part was getting the brain out

98 Reactie door cleesan

  • Geregistreerd: 2010-01-01
  • Berichten: 73

Re: too early

check battle's log. you will see your troops running away. victory % equals to number of troops remaining / number of all troops